Interview: Dayal Patterson

Interview by Jeger

This Is Black Metal Webzine Interrogates Dayal Patterson about his New Edition of the Book –  Black Metal: Evolution of the Cult – The Restored, Expanded & Definitive Edition

This Is Black Metal: Hello Dayal and thank you for this interview! I wanted to start by getting a little into your background and then get into some of the interviews so readers can get a taste of what to expect.

When and how did you get started writing and interviewing?

Dayal: That was back in 2003 or 2004 when I started my fanzine Crypt, which was both a tribute to the fanzine scene that had, at least temporarily, been replaced by the internet and by webzines, and also my attempt to make a sort of Terrorizer style magazine in fanzine format and from my own perspective I guess. I interviewed the likes of Mayhem, Earth and Joe Petagno, and then made a second issue that included Arcturus, Bolt Thrower, Archgoat, Cathedral and many more. I would have made more issues, but I was asked to write for Terrorizer and Metal Hammer based on my work with Crypt and that was when I started to write on a more full-time basis. I worked quite extensively as a freelance writer during the late 2000s and early 2010s for Metal Hammer and also with magazines like Record Collector, Classic Rock Presents and even the NME.

TIBM: When did you discover Black Metal and how did it impact you?

Dayal: I discovered it in the mid-90s when I was around 14 – I stopped going to school for a while and during that time I met some older metal fans in record stores during the daytime (when I would normally have been at school) who saw my Paradise Lost and Bolt Thrower shirts and thought they should introduce me to Black Metal. It was of course a life-changing event, and I became involved in the scene at that point. I was already into Extreme and Death Metal – and still am – and bands like Carcass, Entombed and Sepultura, but the second-wave Black Metal bands like Emperor, Gorgoroth, Hecate Enthroned, Cradle of Filth, Gehenna and so on had a profound impact upon me as the music was extremely heavy but also had a deeper emotional and atmospheric dimension which was extremely intriguing and of course elements of the worldview also resonated with me.

TIBM: As an esteemed author and Black Metal historian, you’ve written a number of books that have been acclaimed as essential reading for the Black Metal enthusiast. But your forthcoming volume, “Black Metal: Evolution of the Cult – The Restored, Expanded and Definitive Edition”, feels more like a celebration of Black Metal past and present. What inspired you to put it together?

 Dayal: The original edition of Black Metal: Evolution of the Cult was written because I was tired of seeing Black Metal documented by outsiders who continued to tell the same story about Mayhem, Darkthrone and Burzum and were essentially creating a caricature of the genre which focussed exclusively on Norway between 1991 and 1993, despite this movement being born in the early 1980s and being, let’s say, 60 percent non-Norwegian.

That book was released in late 2013 by a fairly large publishing house that had its own rules and ideas, and I was given a limit as to how large the book could be, so a lot of things were cut out. I also had very limited control of the design. Ten years later I’ve been able to create a new edition that is almost twice as large as the original in terms of word count and has over 150 interviews, 23 new chapters and a huge amount of new material overall, including 650 images. That is the result of me buying back the rights and transferring them to the publishing house Cult Never Dies, which I founded ten years ago. That of course has allowed me total control, the whole project being overseen by myself with help from the other members of the Cult Never Dies family. It would be hard to communicate how liberating a process that has been and, as you suggest, has allowed for a proper celebration and exploration of Black Metal from over the last 40 years.

TIBM: Over the years you’ve been a prolific interviewer. You’ve conducted some of the scene’s most respected interviews. Many of which are featured in the forthcoming book. Most of my interviews have served as valuable learning experiences. As someone who’s interviewed some of the world’s most respected and elusive Black Metal bands, what would you say is the most profound thing you’ve learned about Black Metal?

Dayal: Thank you for the kind words firstly. I don’t know that I could single out a point made in an interview as being the most profound, rather I think my understanding of Black Metal has increased immeasurably due to the totality of the interviews I’ve made. That is to say that I understand that Black Metal is defined by its plurality, by the overlap of ideologies and attitudes, as well as the contradictions. Speaking to Rotting Christ, Watain, Mystifier, Marduk, Mayhem, Profanatica, Mysticum (the list goes on), one receives many interpretations of what Black Metal is about, many of which go against one another but of course, share some elements also. Within this is the essence of Black Metal.

TIBM: Your Burzum interview is featured in the book. As we all know, Varg has been ostracized due to some of his rhetoric. I feel like he’s one of the scene’s most misunderstood artists. What was your experience like interviewing him?

Dayal: Two Burzum interviews actually, one conducted when Varg first left prison and the other being the final interview he made (to date), which I was asked to do when the final Burzum album was released. Of course, one must separate Varg from Burzum and the book deals with both separately and looks at how the two intertwine. I’m not sure that he’s misunderstood, I think people may just dislike (or in some cases, not) his views or personality while also being completely spellbound by the genius of his music, which I think is perfectly fair. I think the interviews are very enlightening and, as with all interviews, they are as revealing of the interviewee as the matters discussed. One thing that must be stated is that it is impossible to talk about the history of Black Metal seriously without engaging with Burzum. It is one of the most influential bands/projects musically, perhaps even the most influential in terms of having a direct impact upon the compositions of the largest number of artists that followed. Varg’s beliefs and actions are something separate, and the attempt by some to rewrite the history of the genre by completely omitting this project is akin to telling the story of Italian painting but skipping Caravaggio because he was an unpleasant man.

TIBM: You’ve interviewed a handful of Mayhem members past and present. Did you discuss Dead? I’ve always been curious as to how Mayhem feels about Dead’s legacy as it stands today.

Dayal: Yes, Dead is discussed quite thoroughly, through interviews with Necrobutcher, who I guess was probably his best friend by the end, and also Maniac and Manheim. I think all members of Mayhem are aware of the profound impact Dead had and of course, that impact is felt in so many of today’s bands. Along with Euronymous and Varg and a few others, he may be considered one of the most important figures in Black Metal history. That said, it must be addressed that he was not a good man, and some of the mythologising of him today, particularly by younger acolytes, perhaps overlooks that. I’ve tried to take a balanced approach to this matter.

TIBM: From what you’ve learned, which school of Black Metal do you find to be the most fascinating and why?

Dayal: All of them! No, not all of them of course, but as I say, Black Metal is defined by its broadness of expression. I’m not sure one could write a book like this about any other form of Metal, it is made possible due to the sheer immenseness of the movement and its many musical and ideological manifestations. Think of some of the bands in the book – Master’s Hammer, Necromantia, VON, Darkthrone, Beherit, Vlad Tepes, Ved Buens Ende, Forgotten Tomb, Blacklodge, Hecate Enthroned, Black Witchery, to name a few – they are so different from one another in terms of sound, aesthetics, attitude, and worldview, yet all are undeniably Black Metal. As a genre, Black Metal is defined by being simultaneously traditional and groundbreaking, at once conservative and also forward-thinking. That’s very important. Blasphemy is as important as Deathspell Omega, and so on.

TIBM: I’m sure you’ve had the opportunity to meet some of these artists in person. Who was the most interesting or charismatic individual you had the opportunity to meet?

Dayal: I always get asked this and it’s impossible to answer of course, because there are too many to choose from. I’ve said it before, but another reason a book like this is so enjoyable to write, and hopefully to read, is that Black Metal musicians are motivated by more than just making a good tune (at least until recent years, and since the book focuses on the years 1980-2005ish, I haven’t had to worry about that). Obviously, it’s always enjoyable to interview friends – in this book that would include Mysticum, Rotting Christ / Yoth Iria / Lucifer’s Child, Heathen Deity, Winterfylleth, Fen, etc – but I can’t forget talking to the various members of Mayhem, King Diamond, Fenriz, Vicotnik of VBE and DHG, Tom Warrior, Infernus and Gaahl of Gorgoroth/ex-Gorgoroth, Marius Vold of Arcturus and Mortem, FrantaŠtorm of Master’s Hammer and so on. There’s a lot, really.

TIBM: What kind of impressions did you get about these bands’ overall opinion of today’s Black Metal scene?

Dayal: Interesting question. I think most long-time Black Metal participants recognise that this is a very good time for the genre in terms of its popularity and the infrastructure that is now in place, which makes it much easier to tour, release albums, promote your work and so on. At the same time, I think the most exciting and vital years were unquestionably the late 1980s to the early 2000s – that’s not just me being an old man claiming ‘things were better in my day’, ‘objectively’, Black Metal was most exciting when it was still underground and developing rapidly, and when everyone was totally dedicated to it. In the last ten years, Black Metal has reached a massively expanded audience, which isn’t a bad thing as it allows more ambitious events and releases, but the fact that there are now ‘casual Black Metal fans’, and people that listen to (and even make) this music without taking it seriously obviously changes the dynamics somewhat.

That’s how things go of course. I am a huge fan of late 1970s and early 1980s UK punk: Obviously, I’m way too young to have been there at the time, but I love the music, and still see the bands live, but it was through watching documentaries and, most of all, reading interviews and books that I came to really understand the context of the whole thing. That’s what I hope to do with my books. You can read these books and get a real understanding of what it all means and where it came from even if you got into Black Metal after the fact. I mean I wasn’t there when it all kicked off either, everyone has to come into it as a newcomer at some point. But if you discovered Black Metal in the last decade you’re getting a slightly distorted and shallow picture unless you dig a little deeper. The immediacy of today’s internet-driven society isn’t necessarily totally in keeping with the nature of this genre after all.

TIBM: Is there anything specific you’d like readers to know about the book before they read it?

Dayal: Not really, the important thing is that they read it! You can approach this book as a veteran of the scene or as a newcomer, it’s completely self-contained in that sense. There is so much new information and interviews, so I think it offers a lot no matter what your relationship to Black Metal is.

TIBM: The book is being released through your own Cult Never Dies label. You’ve just recently started signing bands. Aside from the book, what kind of exciting things can we expect from CND?

 Dayal: A lot more books certainly, the new Evolution completely dominated 2023 to the extent that our only other major release was the Eloah Burns Out album by Trivax, aside from a couple of Dødheimsgard and Sigh shirts. There are about six books waiting to be completed and released including an art book from Christophe Moyen, an anthology of Petrified fanzine, and a definitive title on the dungeon synth genre. All these will see the light of day in 2024 or 2025. We also have new merchandise coming as it’s been some time since we focussed on that and, as you mentioned, we are also releasing music, the next release likely being the sophomore album from English Black Metallers Heathen Deity.

TIBM: What is the biggest challenge you’ve faced in putting together such a comprehensive book?

Dayal: The loss of sanity working 12-14 hours a day, every day, for about 9 months in order to hit a deadline. That was the main challenge, to be honest; not burning out. The good thing was that the year spent on the update of the book was so much more productive than each of the three years spent on the original. That’s partly because I’m a much stronger, faster and more confident writer than when I first wrote the book in my 20s, but also because when I made the first version of the book, it was often quite time-consuming to actually reach bands and get them to agree to an interview.

Social media has made that easier and, more importantly, most of the bands in question had seen the original book and were happy to be involved. The first time around I really had to describe what the book was going to be like before bands would feel comfortable being part of the project as there was no solid point of reference beyond saying ‘It won’t be like those other books’.

TIBM: What are you most proud of when it comes to “Black Metal: Evolution of the Cult – The Restored, Expanded and Definitive Edition?

Dayal: Getting the rights back, then completely rewriting, re-editing and redesigning all 340,000 words of it, and then finishing it and getting it to the printers. And having it all done under the Cult Never Dies banner.

TIBM: Do you have a message for your readers?

Dayal: Obviously, I want people to buy and read the book, because I’ve invested a huge amount of time and money into this project, more than on any of the 25 publications we’ve been involved with. But, as objectively as I can be, and I must be very immodest here, this is by far the most complete and thorough work on the Black Metal genre ever made, and I think it would be tough to create anything close to this without simply repeating much of the material.

A handful of people involved in Cult Never Dies have read the finished work and one of those is Roy Kristensen of the legendary fanzine Imhotep who has been involved with the Black Metal scene since the early days and whose help was invaluable, for example with interviewing Deathspell Omega. He has described it as the best work created in the Black Metal genre, and he really knows his stuff, so I feel very encouraged by this sort of feedback. And I don’t say this to say, ‘Oh what a great writer I am’ – no, this book is great because so many people took the time to be a part of it. There were about 160 people interviewed and five people who helped edit and give feedback. So my message to readers is to check out the list of people involved if in any doubt as to why it’s an important publication.

TIBM: Thanks for your time!

Dayal: Thank you for your thoughtful questions!

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